Why the hell did Cleon go back?

Post by **The Fox** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:24 pm

Coney Island Baby wrote:In the book, there are no Rogues to accuse Cleon (Papa Arnold) of anything. He just has this compulsion to sneak a look at Cyrus' face while he's lying there dead. The Riffs, naturally pissed that their leader's just been shot, ask him what he's looking at, then start beating him down. There are loads of cops around though, rounding everyone up, so they may of stopped the beating and he may of survived. I highly doubt that he survived the elbow attack in the film though.

In the production book it states he is killed even though you don't see it.

Coney Island Baby · Post by **Coney Island Baby** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 1:26 pm

Did you get the production book on eBay or did you get it with the film's original release?

Post by **The Fox** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 3:15 pm

Ebay and yes it is the real thing as the other items with it come with official Paramount tearaways.

I scanned it all to War Chief so you should see it soon!

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:57 am

War Chief wrote:Good point, though I guess he didn't know he would be framed for killing Cyrus. If you watch the introduction (especially the deleted one) it looks like Cleon really respects this Cyrus guy and that he'd do anything to get up to The Bronx. I guess he knew a lot about Cyrus prior to the meeting, then he just wanted to pay his respects.

No way man, he makes it very CLEAR when at the introduction he says:

"Cyrus says he is the only one and only, I think we better go out and check for ourself".

I am not arguying the fact that what Cyrus proposes appeal to every gang member, including the majority of the Warriors, but with a bit of caution. It is clear that what Cyrus wants to accomplish is to become leader of the greatest gang ever, without realizing that there are others in line waiting to become the same.

Cheers!

warriorchick · Post by **warriorchick** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:03 am

i think that cleon, being the warchief, probably wants to see what the situation is, so he can decide what the warriors will do next. he probably wants to know if cyrus is dead or just badly wounded and if the truce is still on?

SNOW 1 · Post by **SNOW 1** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:05 pm

after he looked at cyrus on the ground he looked like he was still walking that way?

cowboy rules · Post by **cowboy rules** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:16 pm

I think the way Cleon addreses the Warriors at the start, its as if he doesnt want to go to the meeting. Its just the way he kinda looks around him, it looked to me as if he was reluctant to go.

WildBoy · Post by **WildBoy** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:21 pm

In the book, Cleon's character lives - I thought that was interesting, and he was also the first one back to Coney after the raid.

goin_CRAZY · Post by **goin_CRAZY** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:26 pm

To be honest guys, I think you are overanalyzing this waaaay too far. It's one of those things that have to happen in a story that push the story along. Cleon probably just did it on a whim and that's how most things are done.

1. Cyrus getting shot
2. Luther accusing the Warriors
3. The Warriors splitting up
4. Rembrandt informing everyone about the situation he overheard.
5. Luther's infamous "Warriors, come out to play!" taunt.

There are probably more, but I'm not in the mood to analyze it to death.

Post by **Lion** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:41 pm

I never understood that either, I have not read the book, but I tell you guys this; if bullets were starting to fly, I bet you all I would get to that graveyard faster than anybody else!

Coney Island Baby · Post by **Coney Island Baby** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:40 pm

WildBoy wrote: In the book, Cleon's character lives - I thought that was interesting, and he was also the first one back to Coney after the raid.

Good post WildBoy. I completely forgot that Papa Arnold made it back in the book until I re-read it again recently, some of the Dominators' girlfriends say that he made it back hours before the others did, don't they? I wonder how he managed that. :-k

goin_CRAZY wrote: To be honest guys, I think you are overanalyzing this waaaay too far. It's one of those things that have to happen in a story that push the story along. Cleon probably just did it on a whim and that's how most things are done.

1. Cyrus getting shot
2. Luther accusing the Warriors
3. The Warriors splitting up
4. Rembrandt informing everyone about the situation he overheard.
5. Luther's infamous "Warriors, come out to play!" taunt.

There are probably more, but I'm not in the mood to analyze it to death.

We're aware that some things in the movie happen just to move the story along. For example, we know there had to be a fire on the tracks so that the Warriors would be forced to get off the train and encounter more gangs, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't theorize about who might of set the fire. That's what this forum's for! And that's one of the great things about the movie, it can be endlessly discussed and analysed - decisions the characters make, what we would've done in their position, what would've happened if, etc, etc. If you think a subject is being overanalysed, just don't read the thread or comment on it. As long as new topics aren't retreads of old ones, there's no harm in newbies reviving ancient threads like this one to add their own opinions.

adam88 · Post by **adam88** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:55 pm

Well I simply believe that it was all about paying respect. One minute a man that had such a powerful aura and such a magnificent glow, was one minute there hypnotizing every one on a dream that seemed to be impossible. The next moment he is gone from your reality, just like that. This was the man that was going to change everything. This was the genius that was going to cause an actness of God, and make the impossible possible. You see Cleon only knew Coney Island. I am not saying he was dumb, or has never been around. In fact Cleon was a like a wise man himself, but had his limits. Cyrus was the man that opened his eyes, weather he agreed with him or not. Cyrus was a modern day prophet that just made a moment that would go down in history, and now this modern day prophet, this modern day revolutionist, was actually killed. I am sure Cleon has been on a lot of significant adventures in his lifetime, and as a memory he probablt felt, "let me take one last look at the man who was going to change it all, as a learning experience to tell my people what I saw." "And to actually say I have been a part of all of this." Unfortunately it got him killed. Everything is all about self knowledge, and Cleon was not afraid to look the dragon in the eye.

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