Ajax in Jail

[Geoffrey]

Alright, so this may be a pretty stupid though, but everytime I watch the movie I seem to think this.

Ajax COULDN'T have been in jail for more than a night.
Why do I say this? I say this because he technically hasn't don't anything wrong.

Alright, so he's in a gang. All he has to say is 'I found the vest and put it on' and deny being an actuall gang member. Even if they DO find out he's in a gang, they have nothing to charge him on. If the Warriors in the film are like they are in the game (steal stuff, riot etc), then they STILL can't charge him because they have no evidence he took part in any.

In conclusion, Ajax wouldn't have stayed more than a night in prison (I say a night because the police might keep him to 'sober up'/do paper work with him/keep him out of the way, in the cell to go catch other gangs)

Does anyone agree/have any issues?

EDIT. I just realised...he punched/kicked the policeman when he was on the chair, and he sorta forced the girl to have sex with him, even when she was struggling. Still, I don't think he would be in jail long anyway.
Would still like to hear all opinions

[stevo2k6]

i see where your coming from, but remember the cops were after everyone with colours, so they would have been set ups everywhere like that probably,
and he did try and rape the woman and thats bad enough i suppose, not sure how long they would have locked him up for though

[Geoffrey]

Yeah I agree.

Although with the rape issue, it's not like he where armed?
Also, even though it technically was rape, I wouldn't personally call it that?

[Deacon Archimedes]

I see what you're saying. In today's world Ajax would have been charged with assault on a peace officer or even aggravated assault, which are both a felony offense in NY. If the punishment back then was the same as it is now or remotely close, then he probably would have been there for a while unless he could post bail.

[pierangler]

I don't think that Ajax would have been in much trouble if he was not wearing his colors.  He may have a misdemeanor propositioning charge or molestation for what he did to the girl on the bench - but he was a gang member and that particular night it was not good to be a gang member and be picked up by the cops.  He would be in jail for awhile and probably beaten up by rival gangs while he was there.

[Deacon Archimedes]

The fact that he was wearing his colors on the night of Cyrus' murder is a good point as well. The whole scenario was more than likely a plotted set-up for capturing gang members. As for his time in jail, that remains a toss up. There are so many different things he could be charged with. As big as New York is I wouldn't think he would be placed in a cell with rival gangs. He more than likely would have been held in a cell by himself. That's just my opinion.

[Swan 1979]

I think what your saying makes alot of sense but with all the gang members the probably rounded up they probably didn't keep all of them fort more then a night becuase they had no proof they did anything or Ajax did anything.

[Deacon Archimedes]

I agree in regards to Cyrus' death that Ajax had nothing to do with it and there's no proof that he did. If they did keep him, it would have been for hitting that cop.

[GramercyRiff99]

Okay, not to sound like an elitist, but pretty much everyone in this thread is showing some huge misconceptions about the law. Let me go from the top.

For starters, there is an obscenely good chance Ajax had a record before getting arrested. Let's say that you were put in front of a judge, had rap sheet a mile long, and were picked up wearing a gang vest from the area where you live. Do you really think that you would have any chance of the judge believing you when you say "I'm not in a gang". On top of that, a real gang member would NEVER say something like that. Denying membership in a street gang is tantamount to turning your back on them. Back then, you probably would have been beaten and kicked out of the gang. Today you would get shot.

I find the fact that you think it wasn't rape just because he didn't have a weapon to be absolutely appalling. What you're saying is that it's somehow not as bad if a man punches a woman into unconsciousness and then has sex with her, as opposed to threatening her with a knife and doing the same.

He would have been arrested for attempted rape and assault. Nowadays it would be sexual harassment, attempted sexual assault, and assault on a police officer. Even so, he would have to have been extremely lucky to get off without prison time. More likely, he'd have ended up in prison for both the crimes.

The night of his arrest, I can say without a doubt that he would be placed in a cell with other gang members. Of the roughly 900 gang members at the meeting, say a third were caught, which seems reasonable given what's seen in the movie. 300 people suddenly are thrown into the holding cells. There would be more getting caught on the way home as well. Most of them would probably only be there for a night, but if they had a warrant out for them then they'd be there longer. They would not be segregating the prisoners by gang simply because there is no room for that. They'd all just get tossed in the same cell.

The one thing that's been said in here that I can agree with is that he would not have faced any charges related to the shooting of Cyrus. There is zero evidence of him being the shooter or an accomplice. However, there is overwhelming evidence that he was present, which would be Unlawful Assembly, thus allowing him to be arrested for the night. It's the same law that allows the police to break up illegal protests and imprison the people there.

Hopefully I've managed to dispel some of the things that you guys have been saying, because I would hate for you to unknowingly give any of this advice to a friend and have them end up in trouble. Again, I'm not trying to sound better than you guys, just dispelling misinformation before it spreads.

[The Swan]

Your thoughts are very good man, 4 real!!!
But, and I think by now all of us know it, during those years NYC Police arrested a gang member only cause he weared gang colours (or not?).
I mean, the Police woman invited Ajax... so it shouldn't be neither assault on a Police Officer (he didn't know she was) nor attempted rape/assault/sexual assault (indeed, she wanted he shown her how... etc...)!!!
I know something about the law, too... anyway, at this point I'd have another question.
We know it simply was a trap, so, did the Police woman arrest him only cause he was a gang member (no other crime) or not? 8)

[GramercyRiff99]

It was attempted rape, in fact. Sure, she said she wanted to have sex with him. After he started getting violent, though, she said no. The second that word left her lips, had he disengaged, he'd have been a free man. At the worst, he'd have been picked up and held for the night as a gang member. However, he continued after she told him to stop, and that makes it sexual assault.

The assault on an officer didn't refer to the woman, it refers to the cop he punched after being cuffed to the bench. Now that I'm thinking about it, he'd probably have resisting arrest tacked on for that little stunt as well.

[Yak]

Something tells me Ajax would've got away from the cops once things calmed down!

[The Swan]

It was attempted rape, in fact. Sure, she said she wanted to have sex with him. After he started getting violent, though, she said no. The second that word left her lips, had he disengaged, he'd have been a free man. At the worst, he'd have been picked up and held for the night as a gang member. However, he continued after she told him to stop, and that makes it sexual assault.

The assault on an officer didn't refer to the woman, it refers to the cop he punched after being cuffed to the bench. Now that I'm thinking about it, he'd probably have resisting arrest tacked on for that little stunt as well.

Yeah GR99, about attempted rape or sexual assault: a good lawyer could have proved it was not a good accusation, cause the girl was a cop (she can defend herself) trying to arrest him by a "deceit"!!!
It'd have been a no way out accusation, if the girl was a civilian.
So what I mean if that the woman cop arrested him only cause he was a gang member, and she wrote something like "Gang Affiliation" in the arrest report!!!
Same thing 4 the assault on an officer, when he punched him, he was already under arrest. I mean they didn't arrest him because of that punch!!!
At last, I think that attemped rape, sexual assault, assault on an officer... etc... are anyway additional crimes (and yeah, anyway they are great wrong!!!). But the main crime simply is "Gang Affiliation"!!! 8)

[GramercyRiff99]

Again, you aren't entirely understanding how the law works.

The second he laid a finger on that cop, it was assault. It doesn't matter if you're under arrest already, they can and will tack on extra charges. For example, if they arrest you and find marijuana on you later, you'll get charged for that. You weren't arrested for it, but you'll still be charged with it.

Yes, they used deciet to arrest him. However, police do the same thing every day. Ever heard of a sting operation? The police lure you into thinking that they are normal people, then bust you. It's only entrapment if they coerce you into doing something you wouldn't normally do. For example, the cop invites Ajax to sit down. She starts coming on to him, and he responds by getting violent. She tells him to stop, he doesn't, boom, he's done. Now, let's say that the same officer were to stop another guy. He is respectful. Then she starts asking him to get violent and he says he doesn't want to. Finally, she demands that he get violent and, to appease her, he does. THAT is entrapment.

I can virtually guarantee they didn't put "gang affiliation" in the reason area of the report because that doesn't give them probable cause to arrest. Him trying to rape the cop, then hitting the other one did give them reason to arrest him. Gang affiliation in itself isn't a crime.

[Geoffrey]

GrameryRiff 99, you have good points, but to seem to have misunderstood me too.

I'd say he would get done for sexual harassment, rather than rape.
Also, what you said about NEVER turning your back on your gang, I KNOW, but I was just putting it there as an option.

I have a bunch of other things to comment on, but I'm way too tired
Anyway, good points GR99