The Warriors Movie Site Forum

Odd question coming from me I know. But there was a quote from another post that got me thinking. If Swan kept on as leader in the wake of Cleon's demise. When Ajax got back from wherever he winds up, would he challenge Swan's leadership again.

I don't think he would. After the fight with the Furies there was a look between the two that came across to me as a sign of respect from one to the other. Even though he didn't listen to Swan afterward I think he was more willing to follow Swan after that fight where Swan had Ajax's back and vice versa. Give me thoughts. I love thoughts.

I don't believe Swan is going to be the leader of the gang in Cleon's demise--he was only appointed second in command for that night for that mission---he wasn't vice president---he led them by necessity, not choice, and that is why he knew he had the freedom to say "I'll just take off." cause he could, and it wouldn't matter one way or the other.

SO in answer to your question--IS Ajax going to challenge again, probably not.
simply because the Vice President who would NOT have gone to the conclave, who assume command, and Ajax knows the chain of command and IF he did challenge, he would not be challenging Swan.

Besides, after the rest of the 8 gave him the "no confidence" and sided with Swan, you can't lead if no one is going to follow you. He will continue on as soldier heavy muscle.

I agree with ranchgal 100%

nicely said

Yes. Nicely said and also very PC. I noticed you didn't mention WC or WL once in your synopsis.

emissary wrote:I noticed you didn't mention WC or WL once in your synopsis.

:badgrin:

Very well say Ranchgal. I agree whole-heartedly. Had Ajax made it back after the night of terror he would have known that the issue of "next in command" was moot. Once they got back, the higher ranking officers of The Warriors would have made a choice as to who would replace Cleon, and Lord knows that Ajax probably would not have been very high up on that list. Ajax is a brawler and not a leader...that's quite obvious by his relatively short time in the film...

I also agree with Ranchgal. In fact not only would Ajax not challenge for the top spot on his return he may in fact be punished in some way for putting himself ahead of the gang.

i agree ranchgal -- swan made a good leader because he had respect from the rest of the gang. i believe ajax would have been the type to rule by force or fear. those types usually don't make good leaders and i think that swan was having second thoughts about staying in coney.

Ranchgal I always wondered if whether or not Swan was 2nd in Command of the patrol or the gang. I always thought Swan was Cleon's second, period. The gang had 128 members (counting affiliates) and I figured Cleon brought his big guns so that the Warriors could get an even bigger rep. Masai was VP of the Riffs but the Riffs were the biggest gang in New york, they were already established and so Cyrus left Masai to tend to the homefront. I always got the impression that the Warriors were a medium sized outfit trying to make it onto the big map like the riffs. Cleon brought Rembrandt because he "wanted everyone to know the warriors were there."

For that reason I figured he brought his second in Comand in the gang for whatever reason.

yea i don't really think it would matter about swan. He was planning to leave with mercy so it would be up to the next generation of new bloods. Accourding to the warriors video game vermin is the co-founder of the warriors so he probilly is the new warlord. Snow would be the warchief (second in command.)

See that's the thing, I don't really think Swan was going to leave. He probably always hated Coney Island. He does say "Maybe, I'll get out of here." But, when he finds out Cleon's gone, I always figured he'd stick around at least for a few more months until things settled down and the Warriors woouldn't be left without their Leader or their Second in Command. If he left right after that night and with Cleon being dead, that would have been pretty much it for the Warriors. I don't see Swan deserting his guys after all they been through. At least not until he knew they would be alright.

I have to disagree, he took 8 delegates with specific responsibilties with him, because they needed to hear what Cyrus had to say--they weren't going in there to establish reputations---NO MUSCLE-no weapons---they were just like everyone else there--and the reason they needed W on everything was just to establish that they were there---big guns had NOTHING to do with it, he wanted people within the gang that could get them there, remember what was said, and get them home again. They may have been some of the smartest guys they had, and Ajax certainly was one of the stronger, but only Cleon was a leader in the WHOLE gang perspective.
Do you really think that a gang of over 120 members is going to fall apart because 4 members are gone or may be leaving?? Seriously?? They could lose that many in a rumble anytime, and wouldn't think twice, not that they wouldn't be missed, but the gang certainly would not fall apart. Do you really think NONE of them have ever been arrested or been "out of commission at different times?? That is why the Vice Pres. would NOT be going to conclave, they had many more members to keep track of than 9-and there is no way they would take all the members who matter in leadership that far away. It just wouldn't be done.


Well it was VERY obvious to me that Swan was NOT second in command in the gang as a whole IF you ever find and watch the deleted scenes---Cleon hands out assignments for THAT mission---and they all nod and agree respectfully----IF Swan was actually really 2nd in gang--he nor any of the rest of them would have to be told. Everyone would know---but just for that assignment he was told he was going to be second in command warchief---AND if you ever read the orginal script where it describes the members--Swan is a loner, excellent fighter and tactiction--but he isn't named as any kind of leader till Cleon tells him.

I have a couple of thoughts about the leaving statement---I think he was thinking of leaving the gang, and the lifestyle and seeing what else was out there for his life, I think his dis-satisfaction was making him realize he was out growing the lifestlye. And once the gang was home, and all together, his responsibilty towards them was over---of course he would still stick up for them if they needed him, but on home turf--they didn't! He was just another member once they were safe on home turf, and they didn't need his protection or anything else from him. Just like he was before they ever left on the conclave mission, and whether he was there or not didn't matter to gang overall after it was over.
I don't know that he was really planning on traveling very far, simply because I don't know how he would have afforded going anyplace.
But he could have started taking jobs and working his way out without a lot of problems. Without us really knowing where he lived, and how, his physically leaving CI is up to our own imaginations.

Ranchgal, what you say does make sense. And thinking back, I was thinking about the 120 members, but for some reason when I thnk about the leadership question I only focus on the 9 who went. I really wish we had been able to see more Warriors.

I'll agree that everything points to the fact that Swan wasn't second in command of the gang. That sucks though, because he seems a natural leader. Maybe, whoever takes over for Cleon, would make Swan his second based off the events of the night. If Swan actually hangs around. Wishful thinking and never to be answered unless someone starts writing Warrior novels based on the movie. Always a pleasure m'lady.

Yeah, I dont think Swan is the new leader, because like was pointed out the positions for the night were handed out, there would not have been such a hassle with Ajax and Swan if Swan was the real 2nd in command, Ajax would have kept his mouth shut or probolly would have had it closed for him if Swan was 2nd in command. I do belive however that if Swan decided to stcik around he would be boosted up very high in the rankings, along with the other members who went once the rest of the gang heard about what they had to do to make it home, and how even when the odds were severly agaisnt them they would not let anyone push them around nor take off their colors.

yes...but what if he did not make it back? what if the riffs got to him before they found he was innocent

Ajax was arrested. swan made it back.
ajax is in jail for a month. swan left a month later

thats a likely outcome. as is Ajax first words after kicking in the club house door being "hey pussies! IM BACK!"